What Does Oppo Think?

"Kailand09" (kailand09)
05/27/2014 at 22:21 • Filed to: None

Of the C&D opinion on the GTI vs. the ST, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

I recently took a friend car shopping, and for fun we hopped in a GTI. I took the wheel for a little while, and REALLY enjoyed myself. I haven't driven many sports cars, but enough to know that the GTI was unexpectedly fun for a small hot hatch with less than 300hp (I'm comparing to a GTO I drove).

It really got me falling in love with GTI's, the car has 4 doors and more room in the front and back seats than I would have thought. The flat bottom wheel, and VW's seemingly good build quality all drew me in.

I then wondered how this compared to the Focus ST, and saw the C&D review. Is the GTI really better? What do you guys think ?

DISCUSSION (43)

Brian Silvestro > Kailand09
05/27/2014 at 22:23

I'd have a Mk7 over an ST, but not a Mk6.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Kailand09
05/27/2014 at 22:25

The GTI may look better, be a little more practical, and may be German, but the ST is much more powerful and more fun to drive IMO.

If I wasn't regulated to an American car on my recent purchase, it would have been the Mk 7 GTI for me.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Brian Silvestro
05/27/2014 at 22:25

We agreed on something?!? Are you mad?? :P

Brian Silvestro > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
05/27/2014 at 22:26

NO BECAUSE I AGREE WITH IT

Kailand09 > Brian Silvestro
05/27/2014 at 22:26

This makes sense. What are your reasons though?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Brian Silvestro
05/27/2014 at 22:29

THIS IS AN ASTOUNDING MOMENT RIGHT HERE

Kinja'd!!!

Kailand09 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
05/27/2014 at 22:29

What would you say is the margin of difference though? According to C&D, the new GTI is quicker in numbers (straight line) likely because it is lighter than the ST. I was surprised by those numbers since the ST has significantly more power.

Brian Silvestro > Kailand09
05/27/2014 at 22:30

The Mk6 is getting old and 200hp isn't as much as it used to be. And there are so many douchebags who drive one. I personally know 3. Mk7 is fresh and new! More mature and better looking.

Kailand09 > Brian Silvestro
05/27/2014 at 22:31

I meant more why MK7 over ST lol

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Kailand09
05/27/2014 at 22:34

I'd say the only real difference between the two would be the fun factor and everyday use for me. I can get the ST's tail out on a regular basis, not sure if the GTI can do that. But I can't get decent fuel economy the way I drive and I'd imagine that the "less fun" GTI could do better in my hands. If it is lighter though, then I can see why it's slightly faster.

I wonder how much the new GTI torque steers..

Brian Silvestro > Kailand09
05/27/2014 at 22:34

Mainly because it looks better and I'm more of a Fiesta guy. (I'd have a Mk7 over the Fiesta, but it goes Fiesta, then Mk7 in my mind, I skip the Focus altogether)

153624 - Straight Six > Kailand09
05/27/2014 at 22:35

I've never driven an ST, but I've had the pleasure of driving my father's (2010, Mk6) GTI a fair amount. I can certainly say that the build quality on the GTI is nice. The car feels well put together.

I happen to find the leather seats really uncomfortable. I believe they're made by Recaro and most people really like them, though.

Also not a huge fan of the flat bottom wheel. I find the wheels is way too chunky. I find the shifter too tall and the throw too long. On a related note, the clutch is mega soft.

Power comes strong after 2800 RPM, and to me feels about the same from 4000 to 6000RPM.

To be fair to the GTI, most of the things I don't like are because I'm used to my E36 (which driving mechanics I love). For me, the GTI is just a bit too civilized- too soft. It's a great car for my father, just not for me. If I had to have a hot hatch, I'd probably take the ST, just because it's a little more brash.

Vi517, JDX Racing > Kailand09
05/27/2014 at 22:35

The Focus ST only has a 12.4 gallon fuel tank!?!?! I thought 15.9 was small....

Kailand09 > Vi517, JDX Racing
05/27/2014 at 22:42

Yeah, but really when you're going 25-30mpg, that's not that bad a distance on a tank.

Kailand09 > 153624 - Straight Six
05/27/2014 at 22:45

Nice, just the reply I was looking for. I can agree with some of that, though I guess some of it is down to personal preference with the wheel and seats. The seats definitely could be better, though they weren't terrible to me.

I definitely would like the more brash ST myself too, though I have to drive one first.

Kailand09 > Brian Silvestro
05/27/2014 at 22:45

Haha ok. Fiesta would be too small for me.

Kailand09 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
05/27/2014 at 22:46

Haven't driven the new GTI so I'm unsure.

As far as fun factor, everyone is making me think I need to go test drive an ST. I'm not buying yet so I need to resist that temptation before I become a buyer when I don't want to. lol

Brian Silvestro > Kailand09
05/27/2014 at 22:47

GET THE MK7, it's the best all around car out of the two. The Focus might be the better performer, but in a car like this performance isn't the only thing you should be looking for. The Mk7 is the better overall car.

Agrajag > Brian Silvestro
05/27/2014 at 22:50

The perfect one for me would be MKVII chassis and drivetrain, MKVI exterior and MKV Interlagos interior.

Brian Silvestro > Agrajag
05/27/2014 at 22:53

ALL THIS COMMENT RIGHT HERE

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Kailand09
05/27/2014 at 22:53

GO TEST DRIVE AN ST! :)

But please make it a very detailed test; test the following things:

1. Interior quality

2. Getting in and out of the car with every seat

3. Seating positions

4. Look at the interior

5. Start the car

6. Give it some revs

7. Get a feel for the clutch and shifter

8. Get a feel for the pedals

9. Test any creature comforts/features

10. Go drive the car for as much/long as possible and consider everything about the car before you make a final decision. Handling, acceleration, braking, shifting, ease of use, sport mode ect.

11. Test drive GTI using steps 1-10

12. Think about it

13. Think about it some more...

14. make your decision! :)

Garrett Davis > Kailand09
05/27/2014 at 23:09

Actually it is still annoyingly small. 300 miles on before it hits E on average. Not terrible, but it should be more.

153624 - Straight Six > Kailand09
05/27/2014 at 23:10

I have to agree with some of the other commenters - I'd have the FiST over the Focus. He actually bought this car used with 60 000kms on it. He got it VW certified, which means warranty for another 20 000 (40 000?) kms, for $20 00. That might be a fair amount in the US, but here in Canada it was a steal considering the condition of the car.

Garrett Davis > Kailand09
05/27/2014 at 23:12

Definitely drive the ST first. I did a massive amount of research and drove tons of cars before I finally landed in my ST. The GTI is fantastic, and there really isn't anything wrong with it, but the ST was just more fun, and was better looking in my eyes. Also, the ST's Recaros are seriously the best seats this side of $40k.

Here's my write up: http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/hot-hatches-a-…

(Just noticed that this is the first thing in Google if you search for "hot hatch market guide." That's kind of cool.)

Trevor Mohr > Kailand09
05/27/2014 at 23:20

I vote GTI. Superior interior. :D

I'm a bit biased as you may tell. XD

Kailand09 > Trevor Mohr
05/27/2014 at 23:22

Haha I do see the bias, but I really love the GTI after driving one. I haven't spent much time inside the ST, so I'll take your word on interior.

Kailand09 > Garrett Davis
05/27/2014 at 23:23

haha that is really cool. Thanks for the link, I definitely appreciate the in depth talk about the cars. With that much more power, I wouldn't be surprised if I found the ST more fun.

Kailand09 > 153624 - Straight Six
05/27/2014 at 23:25

only thing is, I found the VW certified warranty a bit expensive. A friend just got a Jetta, and they asked $2500 for the warranty, which seemed a bit expensive as the same warranty from Carmax is quite a bit cheaper.

Kailand09 > Garrett Davis
05/27/2014 at 23:25

Yeah, I guess my current car only goes 300 miles on a tank so I still consider that decent. I'm behind the times I suppose hahaha.

Trevor Mohr > Kailand09
05/27/2014 at 23:29

High quality everything in there. Nothing but soft-touch materials, even the door pockets are carpeted.

153624 - Straight Six > Kailand09
05/27/2014 at 23:34

You might be right. The thing with this though was that the tires were worn to the point that the car wouldn't pass safety... even though the VW certified inspection is stricter. So he got $800 worth of tires free from the dealer. I think $1700 for peace of mind in a car with turbochargers that like to grenade around 70 000km is worthwhile.

I'm also not sure if we have Carmax in Canada. My quick Google search has mixed results, so I'm gonna go ahead and say we don't.

Garrett Davis > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
05/28/2014 at 00:08

I see this a lot, but don't understand it, what about the GTI is more practical than the ST?

Kailand09 > 153624 - Straight Six
05/28/2014 at 00:09

That makes sense. In the case the tires were fine, my friend found it too pricey. I figured 2 years 24k on the 2.5 5 cylinder probably won't matter, as it only have 20k already.

Kailand09 > Trevor Mohr
05/28/2014 at 00:10

Yeah I did notice that on the GTI. VW I think has their shit together, despite being considered "boring" these days. The cars are well built and decently fun (very fun in sport trims).

Trevor Mohr > Kailand09
05/28/2014 at 00:22

Mine is a ball to drive. I love it, so much to the point that I call it my "pocket rocket"! The DSG is an amazing transmission, and as much as I wanted a manual, the DSG is fantastic. There is no delay between gears. Even though it's not as fast as an ST, it feels very powerful, pickup is amazing.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Garrett Davis
05/28/2014 at 00:33

Looking at the stats, the GTI has slightly more interior space, a slightly bigger boot. The ST has very little passenger space in the back. That's why I said it is only slightly more practical, both are very great in their roles, don't get me wrong; but if you need every single inch of space possible, then the GTI is what you want.

Nothing > Kailand09
05/28/2014 at 00:41

There are deals to be had on the Focus. Going through Ford Credit was $3k in rebates, plus another 1k for lease conquest had me under $20k. Mine is a the base ST, though. I looked at 2014 GTIs, and couldn't get nearth same deal, let alone a 2015 GTI.

Garrett Davis > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
05/28/2014 at 01:39

I guess I haven't really looked at the measurements, but I remember being just a cramped in the back of my buddy's GTI as I am in my ST. Good to know.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Garrett Davis
05/28/2014 at 01:49

Kinja'd!!!

Here ya go! I reckon it's all down to personal feel in the end, but the numbers are still there. The Focus looks to be the bigger car, but it's dominated by it's radical and outlandish interior(one of my favorite parts of the car) which takes up most of the space IMO. The GTI's interior is simple and straight forward which I think attributes to it's slightly bigger space.

William Byrd > Kailand09
05/28/2014 at 08:36

My choice (just bought an ST) came down to past experience. I've had a bunch of Fords with no issues. But I've had one VW with more issues than most of my other cars combined, and it was brand new. They may have improved over 10 years (I hope so) but once bitten, twice shy.

gabdere > Kailand09
05/28/2014 at 08:59

If you like both cars, I think it comes down to value. The GTI will sort of keep it when the ST won't. I've owned a GTI and it is honestly the best car I've ever had, it is practical, versatile, fast, fun, good looking. I wouldn't buy a 4-door because I think it looks odd and 2-door is the way it should be. I always hated the colour from your picture, I'd go with navy blue if I was in the USA (since we don't have it in Canada). Those wheels look amazing tho. I saw a few Sts recently, the black one I saw was jaw dropping (and a girl was driving it). Not sure if the design will age very well.

blairl > Kailand09
05/28/2014 at 12:26

I prefer the GTI personally, but both are excellent cars. Drive a mk7 GTI before you make up your mind. At the end of the day, I'd say make the decision based on price and personal preference. I believe the Focus is a little less expensive.

midwest_in_sf > Kailand09
05/29/2014 at 12:13

The comparison in R&D was with the Performance Pack GTI. Let's see how the non-performance pack GTI does against the ST in measured tests, first, before judging. Can't get the 2015 PP version until late this year. Non-PP Mk 7s are only trickling out now.